Jesus cheated

Another problem: Jesus cheats. We’re supposed to believe that he’s saving us from an imaginary ancestral sin, and that he’s doing so by dying…but he doesn’t! He comes back three days (OK, actually a day and a half) later, perfectly healthy except for a few holes which don’t seem to perturb him much, and he gets to magically zoom up into the sky and live forever in his dad’s palace. This is no sacrifice at all.

Now, if our hypothetical soldier who threw himself on a grenade turned out to survive the experience hale and healthy because, for instance, the bomb was dud, he’d still be a hero — he didn’t know it would fizzle, and the intent was there. This doesn’t help Jesus, though. He’s omnipotent and omniscient and knew his own nature, and knew that you don’t kill a god by hanging him from a tree and poking him with sticks. Jesus faked his heroism. He’s no hero at all.

Via PZ

13 Responses

  1. Well, I think this misses the point. Jesus actually died. He didn’t ‘survive’ Crucifixion; He actually was tortured, and died from it. He overcame death, and that gives hope to everyone who must inevitably face death – had He simply died and remained dead, there would be no hope in history for humanity at all.

  2. Well, I think this misses the point. Jesus actually died. He didn’t ’survive’ Crucifixion; He actually was tortured, and died from it.

    This doesn’t help Jesus, though. He’s omnipotent and omniscient and knew his own nature, and knew that you don’t kill a god by hanging him from a tree and poking him with sticks. Jesus faked his heroism. He’s no hero at all.

  3. Well, as I answered elsewhere, if one believes sin is our primary problem as humans, and if one believes that death is the debt for sin, then having someone else pay that debt makes sense.

    If I owe a debt, and someone pays it for me, then the debt is paid, even if that person is very wealthy and paying the debt is not hard for them. The fact that death wasn’t ultimately final for Christ doesn’t mean He didn’t actually make the sacrifice, or that our debt wasn’t paid – in fact, someone who wasn’t sinless (perfect in respect to God’s moral obligations) couldn’t have paid the debt. It would be like saying, “Well, I don’t think the payment is sufficient, because I want someone who can’t afford to pay my debt to pay it”. That doesn’t make much sense, does it?

    Christ became flesh, human, so that He could live a sinless life and afford to pay our debt. The fact that He overcame death doesn’t diminish that reality, it confirms that He was capable of paying the debt – and that is a good thing for us all.

  4. Atheism is silly as any other religion…

  5. Um No. Scientology is far sillier than Atheism

  6. Is this really the best atheists have to offer?

    You think Jesus’ actions were not heroic … and?

  7. because he faked it.

  8. So you think He’s a liar and a fraud. So?

  9. I’m not sure what you want from me. Should I give you a treat to make you like my posts more?

  10. I’d like to know what your point is. We all know that you hate God and everything He stands for. We know you like to tell everybody so, but do you have a point?

    Or are you just venting?

  11. If you actually read the whole post, you would have seen this:

    This is how you should think about the holiday today. Selfless sacrifice for the greater good is a social virtue, and it’s nice that Christianity has imbedded the idea in its heart. But what’s revolting is that they’ve taken this simple idea and spindled it up into a sick, twisted, confusing botch of a story that guts it of its power if you use your brain and think about it. Easter is a holiday for the mindless, with a grim horror at its center.

  12. The story of sacrifice at the center of Christianity only makes sense if one believes one is a sinner, or if it matters if one is a sinner.

    If one thinks it is unimportant that humans lie, cheat, steal, kill, are unfaithful in their commitments or greedy in their desires for what others have, then by all means, party on. But if one sees that is a condition we all share, and that this condition needs remedy, then the gospel starts to make sense.

  13. So you hate God and His followers. Still no real point to your venting. I’m guessing there isn’t one….

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